what works best to stop them

topic posted Wed, June 16, 2004 - 1:12 PM by  Froyla
either a 20mmglgrenade slimmed down to .00001
or a letter to the guv.

We had more than 50 sixteen wheeler dumptracks pass by the window before 9 am
today. They stopped five minutes after I wrote to Arnold.

The 20mm tho has a large popping noise that is much more
satisfying though.
posted by:
Froyla
SF Bay Area
  • Re: what works best to stop them

    Sat, June 19, 2004 - 9:43 AM
    .50bmg HEAT rounds.
    • Re: what works best to stop them

      Sat, June 19, 2004 - 6:45 PM
      I don't think they make .50 caliber HEAT--I think there is an AP round, but it's just a solid slug. That should do the trick, though.
      • Re: what works best to stop them

        Sat, June 19, 2004 - 8:02 PM
        Jetrock!!! GOOD TO SEE YOU!!!

        I don't know whether any of these grenade or .50 cal rounds are available, or how available they are, or how effective they are.

        If anyone knows of any report or study that gives the lowdown on field effectiveness of various rounds against wheeled APCs and armored cars, post a link or let us know how to get ahold of it.

        I would think that any AP round would have a better chance of getting into an APC, but your results would vary by caliber, how hot the load is, and most importantly where it hits and what type of APC we're talking about. The armor is more effective in general on some APCs than others, and they all have more and less vulnerable spots.

        I've only come across an old report on the weaknesses of Russian APCs, particularly in relation to fire attacks such as molotovs. One of the diagrams from that report is in the tribe image gallery.
        • Re: what works best to stop them

          Mon, June 21, 2004 - 10:45 AM
          Well, as long as the State of California doesn't pass the bill to ban .50 BMG rifles, one can get them, and ammo, on the civilian market, but AP ammo is a no-no. The jacketed .50 cal slug can go through quite a bit, though.

          20mm grenade launcher? hm. maybe that's the caliber for the new OICW mini grenade launcher thing they want to strap on top of an M-16 frame. Normally GL's are 40mm (US) or 30mm (Russian/Chinese pattern.)

          The Russian BMP is sensitive to flame attacks--its armor is made of magnesium! I think either it or the BMD (airmobile variant of the BMP) has its fuel tanks in the doors. Bad idea.

          Armor varies widely. A .50 cal is typically enough to go through the armor of an older scout/recon variant, but might have a tougher time up against something like a Bradley. This is why a lot of armored cars have sloped armor, to increase the probability of round deflection--hardball AP rounds tend to bounce off of angled armor like that on a V-150, or even the similar BTR series. Sometimes armor is sloped for a particular effect--the South African "Buffel" APC has sloped underside armor and rides high off the ground, to reduce the effect of land mines and ground-based boobytraps, which were a common hazard when it was introduced.
          • Re: what works best to stop them

            Mon, June 21, 2004 - 11:40 AM
            I think the exposure risk to .50cal is underestimated. Even if the armor is able to deflect (by angle or material hardness) indiscriminate attacks, a .50 is generally not used in such a fashion.

            Most units that deploy .50 do so on a tactical basis with a sniper squad. The shooter understands the target and it's weakness, placing the shot at the exact point that disables the vehicle or it's operator. In many cases, the shots are carried out during a quiet period or under cover of darkness, and one shot at a time.

            In an open fire situation, RPG, fuel/air bomb or other tactic would be used. I'm seeing fuel/air being used more and more as an antipersonnel technique...not so much for its destructive force, but more for it's ability to consume the available oxygen in an area.
  • Re: what works best to stop them

    Sun, March 20, 2005 - 5:09 PM
    what kind of vehicle are we talking here? tanks, bradleys, track APCs, wheeled vehicles like a stryker, or just plain uparmored HMMWVs? i can look it up if i dont know the answer, but i really dont think a 20mm grenade would do the trick, you would be better off with the M2 50cal, those are my thoughts, i dont know about civillian stuff, but i am pretty familiar withhh armored vehicles and armor piercing rounds.
    • Re: what works best to stop them

      Sun, March 20, 2005 - 7:10 PM
      Supposedly the Army is testing a new 25mm low-velocity weapon to replace the venerable M2 .50 BMG, based on the OICW concept--several ammunition families (including HE and HEAP) as well as the ranged-explosive concept--using a laser rangefinder to find the distance of an obstacle, and program a round to explode just beyond that range, to hit personnel behind that obstacle.

      We're talking about armored cars and light armored vehicles as a category here, so there really isn't one sure answer. Tanks are probably beyond the realm of this discussion, unless we're talking about light scout-type vehicles--PzKpfw I's, etcetera.

      .50 BMG used in the sniper role is different from the .50 BMG encountered as a coaxial or pintle-mounted weapon, or in heavy MG positions.

      In order to ensure that one's bases are covered, it's still nice to have some sort of rocket-based anti-tank weaponry--maybe overkill, but an M47 Dragon on hand will handily dispatch any light armored vehicle and have some utility against modern main battle tanks, and its wire-guided operation means better accuracy than a LAW.
      • Re: what works best to stop them

        Sun, May 1, 2005 - 9:38 AM
        Umm, how about a big hole in the ground? Not as portable or reliable as them rocket launchers and such, but they are available everywhere in the world, and with a little time and a bit of hard work, you can even make your own.

        (Yes I know, I'm a dick. But sometimes these discussions just seem to be in need of a low-tech solution being tossed on the table. *L*)
        • Re: what works best to stop them

          Sun, May 1, 2005 - 12:43 PM
          Making a hole big enough can be challenging, and the other important factor is figuring out a way to convince the armored car to drive into said hole.

          Armored cars with poor off-road capability would be more vulnerable to low-tech roadside obstacles like holes in the road, but vehicles with better off-road capabilities could either avoid the hole or would be more likely to be able to un-ditch with minimal problems.

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